January 12, 2025
A Conversation with Grace Gardner and Caroline Carter
Freya Greenwood

High off the release of an album and EP, I spoke with Grace Gardner and Caroline Carter, Texas natives who are storming the indie pop world with their own flair. 

After blowing up on TikTok for their queer breakup anthem, “deny me,” Grace Gardner gained further traction in their music career. The 23-year-old writer and producer started releasing music independently in 2021, situating their place in the folk-indie world. This year they embark on their first headline tour around the USA, playing in Somerville, MA, New York, NY, Washington, DC, and Philadelphia, PA.  

Caroline Carter, a newer addition to the queer indie-pop music scene, began releasing original music in 2023. Best friends with Grace, they collaborated to release queer breakup song, “lubbock,” a song that captivated me upon discovery. Her first EP released in 2024, I Did What I Promised, marks her continued presence in the music industry, and we can’t wait to see where her career takes her. 

I got the opportunity to speak with Grace and Caroline at the end of 2024 to discuss their solo projects and collaborations. Learning about their songwriting process, inspirations, and rise to becoming musicians, I am impressed by their efforts to stay true to their craft as independent artists in a ruthless industry. 

A Conversation with Grace Gardner and Caroline Carter

KSDT: Thank you for talking to KSDT Radio, we’re thrilled to have you join us. For our readers who aren’t familiar with you, how would you describe the music you typically create, either separately or together?

Grace Gardner: I feel like together it’s probably still the same answer as what I would give.

Caroline Carter: I usually just say like on the indie-folk, rock side; I think that my stuff is a little bit more pop-leaning, and yours is more heavily folk-leaning.

Grace Gardner: Yeah, I think that’s kind of the only place where we part ways. And I feel like “Lubbock,” the song that we’ve done together, is more of that indie-pop, as it’s got more pop aspects to it. Both of our music is very lyric-driven which is reflected in my EP that is about to come out. 

KSDT: What first got you both into music?

Grace Gardner: For me, it always felt pretty natural—there wasn’t really a defining moment. Caroline and I were both theater kids growing up, which definitely helped. I did choir as long as I could in school and my school had regular music classes. My dad was a very passionate car singer, so I think I learned music as an expressive outlet early on.

I started piano at seven, but it didn’t stick because I didn’t like my teacher. Guitar came a few years later, and that felt much more natural. From there, everything just fell into place: choir, musical theater in high school, and joining bands at that age. It took time to build the confidence for a solo career, but music has always been a prominent and natural part of my life.

Caroline Carter: I did church choir and children’s choir in middle school. I liked choir, it was my elective and more vocally based. I didn’t try to learn guitar at first; I took guitar lessons in fifth grade, and my teacher was great, but I hated being told what to do, so I taught myself later. Other than that, it was just singing for choir or musical theater. I started writing my own stuff as a kid, like first-grade songs, and I still have some.

KSDT: You should bring some out of the vault and add it to the deluxe version of your next album.

Caroline Carter: Haha we’ll see, we’ll see.

KSDT: What brought us here today was “lubbock.” I first heard a snippet of the song on TikTok in 2023 and instantly fell in love with it—I had it on repeat, eagerly waiting for the full release. Can you share what the process of writing it was like?”

Grace Garder: We were hanging out in May 2023…?

Caroline Carter: Yes! We were hanging out in May 2023, and I had just gone through my breakup from hell, so we wrote a song about it. 

Grace Gardner: I think I came over to Caroline’s house with the intent of writing a song, because we’d hung out a few days before and were like, “Maybe we’ll write a song,” but we just messed around instead. I came over a few days later, having just gotten back from visiting my girlfriend for a few weeks, but when I got to Caroline’s, the vibes were off. We were screwing around with guitars, unsure of what to write about. My process for co-writing is usually like, “What are you going through right now? What’s the trauma you’re dealing with?”, and then I try to find the intersection of where we’re both at. I think what happened was Caroline was subletting a house on Lubbock Avenue, which was a significant location in her breakup. I pointed out the funny parallel, and Caroline hadn’t realized it. 

Caroline Carter: I did not put two and two together. They were like “Sorry,” and I said I guess we should write a song about it.

Grace Gardner, Caroline Carter – “lubbock”

KSDT: Is that the house on Lubbock where most of the song is set? Like, when you’re cleaning their apartment.

Caroline Carter: No it was just a summer housing situation that just happened to be on Lubbock Avenue. It was really just a coincidence.

KSDT: I know you’ve both done other collaborations previously, was this collaboration any different than other ones you’ve done?

Grace Gardner: It was just special. Caroline and I had like been Internet friends for a long time, and then as soon as we met in person, we were very fast friends. Caroline is a couple of years younger than me, and I saw a lot of myself in Caroline. I wish I was more like that when I was her age, there’s a part of me that’s jealous of the personal growth milestones she’s reached at 21.

We immediately clicked and had so many parallel life experiences. At that point, I had been put in a lot of random co-writing rooms where you really never know who you’re gonna click with. I was like, “Wait it’s so awesome to make things with your friends.” As soon as we wrote it, we were like “Wait this rocks, this is a good song”.

Caroline Carter: Well that was my first time truly collaborating. I had written songs with my friends but never with the intention of putting them out, more so just for fun, so whenever we wrote “lubbock” I realized, oh that’s what co-writing is supposed to feel like. Watching it come to life and like recording it together I was like this is what we should be doing all of the time. It was so much fun and very special.

KSDT: Grace, you were talking about growth, so let’s dive into Recovery Mile. What did you learn creating that album, and how did that influence future projects such as your new album that just came out?

Grace Gardner: Honestly, the lessons I learned from it are pessimistic in a way. I learned I needed to have a set of standards with the people that I trusted my music with. Having no sense of the music and entertainment industry before entering, I was going unknowingly with limitless trust. There is a certain class of people that identify someone’s strength, resilience, and talent quickly and attempt to take advantage of it, and I got caught up with a few people like that. I learned through the process of my first two EPs to trust my gut, and if I could not find anyone within my set of standards, then I’d learn how to mix and master myself.

KSDT: Caroline, you released your first EP I think earlier this year, I Did What I Promised. What were some of your inspirations for that?

Caroline Carter: Well, it was my first time sitting down to record a project for anything, so it was kind of daunting, but I had a lot of inspiration going into it. I love Soccer Mommy, and I always point to her as the earliest inspiration because she was kind of what kick-started the whole “I listen to indie music” thing for me. I’ve been really into Madison Cunningham because her lyricism is nuts. I was listening to a lot of Madison Cunningham and Phoebe Bridgers while writing the EP. 

Caroline Carter – I Did What I Promised

KSDT: There are a variety of different genres on I Did What I Promised. What were the easiest or most challenging songs to write? 

Caroline Carter: “Trinity” definitely took the longest to finish. I had the song mostly done but struggled to figure out the lines and melody for the bridge. My friend, Casey Quarles, helped me piece it together, and she was incredible. When we sat down to record, it became frustrating because “Trinity” is my favorite track, and I wanted it to feel perfect. Logan, my producer and friend, kept reassuring me, telling me it didn’t need to be overthought and that we’d figure it out together, which really helped me calm down.

KSDT: Do you often find yourself falling into those perfectionist tendencies when you’re writing, or was it just for that song?

Caroline Carter: Honestly, I think it was just for that song. It tends to happen with the ones I’m most nervous about putting out. After I finish writing, that’s when I start to become a bit of a stickler about everything. I try to keep an open mind during the writing and production process. I’m willing to explore a bunch of different ideas before we reach the end goal, and if I don’t like something, it doesn’t have to stay. I’ll often find myself changing lyrics while the mic’s being set up, and it’s all part of finding what works.

KSDT: Caroline, I know you said you were surprised by the love that the song “Lucy,” on your new EP. I know for myself and many queer women that was a really influential and relatable song. What were your expectations upon releasing it?

Caroline Carter: I originally didn’t want to because I just kind of wanted it as an exercise for myself I was in a time where I was writing too much about the other people around me and I was like I don’t even know how to write a song about myself. I tried and failed so then I was like okay I’ll write a song about how someone I know would speak of me and that’s what the song is. 

Going back to you Grace, your new album After Knowing just came out which is very exciting, how are you feeling?

Grace Gardner: I’m not nervous—I’m excited! I feel really good about the engineering and quality of this project. Previously, Ig was recording in a bedroom, but now I’m in a basement, so definitely an upgrade. Except for the Buff Chick feature, where she wrote her verse, all the lyrics are mine, which feels fitting for the purpose of this project. There’s a lot of contained rage in my life, which is a recurring theme, so I think that’ll continue to be my niche for a while. 

Working on the album with Lonnie Davis was incredible. He engineered, mixed, and mastered the entire project, and we co-produced it together. He has a music degree and brought his technical expertise, but he still let me take the lead creatively, which restored a lot of my confidence in composing and songwriting. I’m so grateful for his empowering approach, and I’m really proud of what we’ve created.

Grace Gardner – After Knowing

KSDT: Super cool, congrats! On the topic of After Knowing how would you describe the album? You gave some hints to it but as a whole how would you describe it?

Grace Gardner: The mood and themes of After Knowing unpack internal turmoil and contained rage. It’s part yearning, part “fuck you.” The title comes from this idea that no matter how much you may want to, you can’t go back to the version of yourself you were before knowing something—whether it’s the truth about someone, their intentions, or an event that occurred. For years, I’ve been sitting with this truth that ignorance really is bliss, and sometimes I wish I could be someone comfortable with staying unaware. But I’m a figure-it-outer at my core. I’ll always be thinking, questioning, overthinking—it’s just who I am.

Recently, I was talking to my high school teachers, and they said, “You spent so much time on this quest for truth, and it’s so good to see you doing something with it.” That stuck with me because I know this search is never gonna stop. Writing this project was about coming to terms with that—learning to appreciate who I am after knowing. All the things I’ve learned about people and experiences in my life have equipped me with this nonstop questioning, and I wanted to find some peace in it because I know it’ll never go away. My parents and family are always like, “Can’t you just move on?” but this album is about exploring that same confessional energy I’ve always had—writing themes everyone can connect to, but in a way where they stop and think, “What the fuck?”

KSDT: I have some questions unrelated to your music that I wanted to ask. I wanted to know what your Spotify Wrapped 2024 looks like. 

Caroline Carter: My top artists from one to five are Madison Cunningham, Eliza McLamb, Remi Wolf, Slow Pulp, and Momma. My top songs were Missing You by Shakey Graves, Slugs by Slow Pulp, I Don’t Know You by Mannequin Pussy, Medicine by Momma, and Good to Be Bored by Venus and the Flytraps.

Grace Gardner: My top artists were Madison Cunningham, Alvvays, Hayley Blais, Eliza McLamb, and The Japanese House. I thought it was interesting that I only listened to 11,000 minutes this year. In years past, my friends would do the math and I had listened to like eight hours of music every single day and they were like, “Can you live in silence Grace?” but no, I can’t. My top three songs were Anywhere, All I’ve Ever Known, and Sunshine Over The Counter all by Madison Cunningham. My number four was Survivor’s Guilt by Hayley Blais and my number five was Atom by Medium Build.

KSDT: Do you ever see yourself doing any festivals when given the opportunity?

Grace Gardner: Oh yeah, I would love to! I played at Music Midtown in Atlanta last year um that was really fun it was in the rain so that was a little cute moment. I would love to play All Things Go, and festivals that put queer, female, and non-binary acts at the forefront of their lineups. A lot of folk festivals too, there are some good ones in Texas like Cripple Creek Music Festival.

KSDT: My last question is, what’s next for you guys do you have any projects in the works that you can tease?

Caroline Carter: I’ll have a song come out early in 2025, but we’re still finishing. I’m planning to have that be a single for now and then hopefully work on a project after that. 

Grace Gardner: We have concepts… We have a name and a couple of songs that are half-written. We have talked about making it a priority for next year for us to actually make music and release it under this name and it’d be cool to tour that too. We live several states apart at the moment so it’s a little bit hard to coordinate all of that. For me, I’m gonna be doing a lot of touring on the solo side. 

KSDT: Well, that was my last question. Thank you both for your time, it was surreal to get to talk with you guys after being a long-time listener.

Caroline Carter: Of course! 

Grace Gardner: Thank you for your time too, we had a great time chatting!

More from Grace Gardner:

Instagram | Twitter | YouTube | LinkTree

More from Caroline Carter:

Instagram | Twitter | YouTube | LinkTree

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